Brian Therrien:  I’m going to get right into it,  Andy Leaf, who is he, and about his background as being the the resident expert on helping people with disabilities start a business.  We’re going to cover that.  We’re going to talk about some basic tips to start a business.  We’ll cover how much money you can make, making the business or working for yourself without getting the shaft from Social Security yanking your benefits.  Business plan tips.  How people with disabilities start a business with no money down.  We’ve got some really hot tips for you today.  How to get started and where you can go for help.  There are step-by-step actions on that.  Basic tips for working from home.  I mean this has been one of the most frequently asked questions about finding reliable work-at-home options, and we’ve got some some people that are calling in today that are, already, supplementing their income.  They’re members of the Disability Digest and, so, we’re going to hear from them.  There’s various businesses that they work on, so, I’m looking forward to that.  Then, at the end, we’re going to take some questions and answers.  So, that’s what we’re going to cover today.  So, let’s get started.  First of all, about Andy.  Andy, you still out there?

Andy Leaf:  I sure am.

Brian Therrien:  Awesome.  For those of you who don’t know Andy, he was here about a year ago, spent some time with us, and we recorded some of his work, but since 1996, you’ve been really empowering people with disabilities to start and run businesses.  You’ve…have a nonprofit organization called Disability Biz that you’ve done that with and you’ve done some great work.  Help countless people get going in business.  And what Disability Biz does is provides a variety of disability resources and small business services for people to get started.  It’s really a one-stop center for accessible and reliable business resource information, so, there will be a…when I circulate this audio, there will be a resource section that you can access that.  So, Andy knows, from his personal experience, just how important it is to access meaningful employment and entrepreneurial opportunities.  You’ve been a wheelchair user for almost 40 years now and, so, transportation and health issues have have forced you into this direction, so, you’re hearing first-hand information.  So…so, without without further adieu, let’s get into some of the business tips and basic tips and and, actually, let’s…let’s start with some of the tips that you have and then, when we finish that Andy, we’ll talk, in the next part, a little bit about, you know, how much money people can make without using the benefits tip thing.  Alright?

Andy Leaf:  Okay.  Alright.

Brian Therrien:  Basic tips.  Here we go.

Andy Leaf:  Okay.  Well we…as Brian said, I’ve been working with clients and helping people start their business since about 1996.  And the majority of our clients that we’ve seen over the years, a lot of them had hobbies that they had, arts and crafts, or whatever, that they took to the next level.  Took it out of the hobby stage and and worked up to making it a small business for them.  A little bit of income coming in not just to get some extra money for buying clothes and food and stuff like that.  So, I would first off say that if you want to do something that you already have some experience doing.  If you have that that you can develop into a business.  Something you like to do, you have an interest in, because this is your… you want to be…you want to like what you’re doing.  If it’s something that you don’t like to do, then you’re not going to be very encouraged to put lots of energy into it.  And running a small business takes a lot of energy.  A lot of people get in trouble when they start thinking about how to get rich quick.  They see these schemes.  You can make $10,000 a month doing da da da da, stuffing envelopes, or whatever, you know, and they they get in trouble.  And, usually, they end up just having a bunch of products or services that they can’t really sell.  So, my my caution to you is to…don’t focus so much on the money aspect, but be realistic in what your expectations are and what your skills and stuff are to compliment what you want to be doing.  So…

Brian Therrien:  Great tips.  Can I just mention something?  I have a favorite example.  I’m just…for those of you out there, I’m going to just mute the background noise, so hang on a second.  Okay.  Andy, there was a call that we had a little while ago and, you know, this guy was working with a coach that was helping her to find a business.  She was disabled.  And, so, the common question was well, what is it that you like to do?  Just like you post.  And this gal said well, you know, to be frank with you, what I really like to do and what I’m good at is sitting around.  So, this is one of my favorite stories, so, the coach kept going and brainstorming and thinking.  She said, well how could you build a business into sitting around?  Supplementing your income?  So, the end result is this gal started a business called Sitting Around and what she does is she goes over to people’s homes and she sits there and waits for the refrigerator repairman, for the cable company to come and show up, for a child to get home from school, so that people don’t have to take a day off from work.  Perfect business.  Doesn’t require a lot.  Pays some good money.  Keeps people from taking the whole day off, so.  Interesting story.  That would be an applicable example would it not?

Andy Leaf:  It would for sure, definitely.

Brian Therrien:  Yeah.

Andy Leaf:  You have to be inventive, you know.  There’s a lot of opportunities out there, but you just got to look around and see what suits you and what your people around you are needing.

Brian Therrien:  So, what does somebody do if they don’t have skills or experience or just are plain stuck with coming up with ideas like Sitting Around?  Any tips?

Andy Leaf:  Well, basically, I would think about getting some training.  Go back to your local junior college if you want.  See the type of courses there.  What interests you?  Take a couple of things.  See if it works for you.  If it doesn’t, then switch over to something else.  The other thing is that you might consider working for somebody else.  If you have an interest in retail or something, maybe go to a local retail store, maybe a jewelry store, work for them for awhile.  Find out how the business works, find out the ins and outs, and find out what mistakes that they might make or what good things they do and kind of incorporate that into your own…your own business.

Brian Therrien:  Um-hum.

Andy Leaf:  There’s so many areas, though, we can get information on on what to do and get training.  Online, of course, there’s so many things available that are out there for free, sometimes.  There’s a lot of books out there that are available that give you some good tips on what to do.  And as I said, again, the junior college is a real good source of having a smorgasbord of different things out there for you to learn and pick from and find something that interests you.

Brian Therrien:  Andy, what about getting tuition paid for for, you know, somebody that’s disabled and wants to back to junior college.  Is there any relief for that through voc rehab or grants or local, you know, organizations?

Andy Leaf:  Voc rehab is probably the best one to go through if you have a disability and to get into the system.  Some states vary as to how many people/clients they take into their program.  But, if you can get accepted into your local/state vocational rehabilitation service, then they would pay for your training, they would pay for your books, and sometimes they’ll pay for your transportation back and forth.  So, it’s a real good way to get funding for getting your training done for your business.

Brian Therrien:  Um-hum.  Um-hum.  Good tip.  Anything else that you can think of before we get on to, you know, the general income structure and strategy for people?

Andy Leaf:  Yeah.  One last thing.  This is…after you’ve done the research and stuff and you have a good idea of what you want to do, you need to find out what is the most marketable and needed.  That’s real important.  Because your business has got to be needed in your community.  So, what you need to do is conduct some preliminary surveys with potential clients.  You also want to do some reading about what your industry statistics are.  What area you’re going to go into?  What is your competition?  What is the goal factors of that particular industry?  For instance, right now with the housing industry the way it is, you don’t want to be going into selling houses with regular real estate, but there’s a lot of distressed sales out there, so, going into something like that might be something to look into…

Brian Therrien:  Um-hum.

Andy Leaf:  …if you have type of temperament, you know.  But, basically, you want to analyze your competition and find out what your product is, how it’s going to be better than theirs, and what your niche is going to be.

Brian Therrien:  That’s that’s how the Disability Digest started.  We surveyed about 500 people, online, using pay per click  strategies and it was astonishing to find that there was a lack of information in place, to make a long story short, so…

Andy Leaf:  Yeah.  It’s real important you listen to your perspective clients as to what the need is that they want and then once you’re finally doing your business, you want to have the feedback from your…from your customers as to what you’re doing.

Brian Therrien:  Yup.

Andy Leaf:  If you’re doing something wrong or you could do something better.  They’re a good source for suggestions.

Brian Therrien:  No doubt.  Another economical way to start to release and get ideas out there that I’m seeing is people can blog, which is, if you learn how to blog, you can get a blog for next to nothing online and start writing your message and developing an audience with low cost to no cost and, based on your audience feedback, is another way that I see that people are able to, you know, see if they have a viable idea that sticks.

Andy Leaf:  There’s a lot of things out there, yes.  Just…you go out there and research and on our website, too, there’s lots of connections there for other websites and information places.  So, lot of resources out there.

Brian Therrien:  Um-hum.  Um-hum.  Andy, one…before we get on to some specific tips in developing a business plan, I’m often asked by people, you know, how much money they can make and keep their benefits and it’s generally around the SGA, now it’s $940 last I understood it, which means that if somebody’s on disability, they can earn up to that and still keep their benefits and then there’s always the strategy of using a corporation once people start to make money and want to protect themselves.  What can you add to that for advice for people?  What do you coach your folks?

Andy Leaf:  Well, one real important thing to use, if you have, like, $900 bucks or so coming in as pay, you want to make sure that you use what’s called the Employment-related Work Expenses, so that is you can offset any money that you’re making with any type of expenses that you have for employment.  For instance, I’m in a chair, so if I’m paying for my wheelchair or something and I need that to go to work, then I can mark that expense off from my…from my income.  So, you mark it off you’re your gross and mark it down with that with medical supplies, blood pressure medication if you take that, other types of medications, medical supplies you need.  If you need help with an attendant, personal attendant to help you with your work, then you can mark that off, too.  If you’re paying people for services, that’s a business expense for you.

Brian Therrien:  This is a…

Andy Leaf:  You can mark that off your check and then, quarterly, if you can get your expenses down quite a bit, so you’re only making, net, maybe $100 or maybe less bucks a month, so, it wouldn’t affect your payments very much at all.

Brian Therrien:  Wow.  This is a…this is a new found tip.  That’s why I keep calling you back.  You’ve got all these great ideas.  So, somebody…let’s say somebody has got a job and they need, you know, they need to perform and they need to be medicated, so, that medication, which might or might not be normally paid for through traditional insurance, could be a business expense.  Is that what you’re saying?

Andy Leaf:  If they need that to be employed, yes.  If there’s something like…I have a monitor that I have, a T.V. monitor, which I use for business expense, I have clipped that to my computer so that I can show people that are here for different presentations, what our website looks like and also I use it for board meetings and such.  So, I have a business component.  But, it also is a T.V. monitor.  But, I bought that and I can take off the whole cost of that particular equipment, because I use it for business.

Brian Therrien:  Beautiful.  Beautiful.  Great tip.  Excellent.  And, of course, that’s best suited if somebody’s working in a corporation environment, so the corporation has all the expenses and you only take a small check out of that corporation, which is reflected upon your income, correct?

Andy Leaf:  Right.  Yeah, you can hand a lot of your business expenses over to the corporation and then you just draw a small salary, you know.

Brian Therrien:  Yeah, yeah.  And for there’s sort of concerned about opening a corporation and what can you, you know, the expense and the steps and all that.  I know there’s easy ways to do it.  We’ve got some online, but, do you have any…can you…can you help ease the concern…about the concern of opening a corporation?

Andy Leaf:  It’s it’s a little bit complicated, but it can be done for…by yourself for about $500.  That’s with all the filing fees and everything else, for a nonprofit corporation.  For a regular corporation, it’s less than that.

Brian Therrien:  Yep.

Andy Leaf:  But, basically, it’s better filing with your state and with your federal as to what you’re doing.  Your DBAs and such.

Brian Therrien:  Um-hum.

Andy Leaf:  It’s a step-by-step process.  We have those available through our website and such, so.  As you too have in Disability Digest steps to it.  Each state’s a little bit different, but, basically, you need to contact your State Attorney, General, and those type of things and follow the paper, you know, just make sure you do the paperwork.

Brian Therrien:  Great.  Excellent.  Let’s talk about business plan tips and, specifically, if somebody’s going to go out, wants to start a business, like anything else, they’re looking for money, you need to have a plan.  So, what tips for do you have for most people who haven’t written a business plan, I’m going to presume that, at this state.  So, let’s starts from there.  What advice do you have?

Andy Leaf:  Well, at the very start, you want to be realistic.  You want to know what your particular physical limitations are.  If you have a lot of energy, great.  If you don’t, if you’re limited, then you want to make sure that what you’re going to be doing is within your limits.  You want to be very realistic about your income and your expenses, too.  You want to make sure you do research and find out that what you’re saying is reliable and that it reflects what’s going to be happening in the future.  This is especially important when your putting together a business plan for the Department of Rehab.  They want to…they’ll look at your figures very closely and if it doesn’t look realistic to them, then your plan or your business plan will probably be rejected.

Brian Therrien:  Um-hum.

Andy Leaf:  So, and also, as I mentioned before, your level of competence.  What are your skills?  You need to be realistic.  If you don’t have the right skills, as I mentioned before, you need to get those somehow.  It takes awhile to put something like a business plan together and it’s a little complicated, but if you follow the easy steps we have on our website, so it can be done, but I suggest that after you get it all done, maybe you have a professional take a read through it just to give you a little feedback from their perspective, if you missed anything or things could be done just a little bit better.  So, going with that, I think, will get you started on the right course.

Brian Therrien:  You know, this is…this is good advice for, you know, the audience for the Disability Digest is, I’d say there’s may be 30 percent that are not on disability and 70 percent that are.  So, you know, for those of you that are not on disability and looking to do some work and supplement your income, again, it’s not advised from our experience in speaking to others, that you show any income while you’re applying for disability, it’s just tuff to win those cases now.  But, what Andy’s going through right now is exactly what I believe you should be doing, if you have an aspiration to start a business once you’re on disability, is to get your plan together.  Do your research.  All of that can be done right now and come up with the idea.  So, so, a little strategy there for folks that are looking to position themselves during that, you know, 18 to 24 month wait while they get their disability income, so, great tips.  Okay.  Now, we may have put the cart before the horse here, because we’re talking about our business plan and now we want to talk about when do you do a business plan, what you do with it, the types of funding, and there really are ways out there that you’re going to reveal to us about how people with disabilities can, they can start a business for, in some instances, no money down, right?

Andy Leaf:  Yeah.  You could get a lot of help, but if you’re going through the Department of Rehab or what’s called PASS Plan, which is available through Social Security for people who have received SSI and SSDI checks and, basically, what those things are is you’ll be able to set aside money and put it into a business account and use that money for your business start-up expenses or your business expenses.  So, basically, it takes putting together a business plan, which needs to be very detailed and, as I said before, very realistic, but those two things…the Voc Rehab, they have particular guidelines that you have to follow.  In the past, I had a request through Social Security it’s particular guidelines, also, it’s requirements.  So, it’s better to fill out the forms and, true to the motto, we’ve found that if people use both Voc Rehab funds as well as PASS funds, that they’re more likely to be accepted in the Voc Rehab world.  So, Voc Rehab doesn’t like to see so much just themselves being solely responsible funding, they like to have other sources of income there, too.  So, both those resources could definitely help you get you started with your start-up costs, getting your equipment together, get you started on the road to having your plan done.  When you’re dealing with Voc Rehab, although they are required by federal regulations to have programs for self-employment, a lot of the Voc Rehab counselors don’t have any experience, or very little experience with business, they don’t have any training in that, so, usually, they’re not real enthusiastic about you…a client coming in and saying I want to go into self-employment.  So, they may discourage you from doing that or they may not even have a program available in that particular state.  So, we see there’s a need in the community for that.  So, myself and the other members of SGA have put together a new software program, which will be coming out probably within the next couple of months and, basically, it’s a tool for the rehab professional to help them work more effectively with their clients who want to go into self-employment.  And, basically, what we have will be a program that a client, a Voc Rehab client, can go online and put their business plan together, they’ll be able to save their work online, the Voc Rehab counselor will have access to those files, and can help their client through the process.  Once the plan is completed, then it’ll…program will automatically go through, take out the different elements that are needed for the completed plan for Voc Rehab or for PASS, put together in a coherent manner so they can present that for funding.  You may have to do a little bit of tidying up on it but, basically, all the information is there and then you can present that to your funding source, whatever that happens to be.

Brian Therrien:  Okay.  I have a question here.  This is great information.  Let’s walk through a PASS example.  Let’s say somebody has a Social Security disability check of $1,000 a month that they’re receiving, okay.  Here’s what I would like you to explain.  If that check is being received…if you allocate a portion of that and it goes into a specific account for a PASS account; is that correct?

Andy Leaf:  Right.

Brian Therrien:  Okay.  Well, here’s…how do you address this question?  Somebody’s…most commonly people that are really release checks, they need every dollar that they can get, that’s why they’re looking to increase their income.  So, if you defer $200 or $300 a month into a PASS program, how do you address the concern for people to reduce their income to do a forced savings plan to start a business?

Andy Leaf:  Well, they’re still getting their regular check.  They still have the money to live on, but you have this extra money for for your business start-up, your business expenses.  So, it doesn’t effect your own particular money coming in, your monthly check, but it gives you additional funding.

Brian Therrien:  Oh, it does.  So, instead of…so, for example, you would still get the $1,000 check, but you may get a separate check that would go into a PASS account for a certain amount of dollars?

Andy Leaf:  Exactly.  So, you have to watch that very closely.  You want to keep your funds separate.  You don’t want to have your PASS funds in the same bank account as you do your personal funds, and then you want to keep records of all your expenses, and it’s got to follow what your business plan was originally.  This money…this “x” amount of money will be used to buy equipment, da da da da, or will be able to hire an assistant to help me with my work or whatever expenses you have down in your plan.

Brian Therrien:  Okay.  Beautiful.  Beautiful.  So, you still get your $1,000 a month and you could get an extra, you know, $300 or $400 dollars a month, perhaps more, you know, to help your business get going.  And that’s the beauty.

Andy Leaf:  Usually, PASS plans run for 12 months, but in certain circumstances they could have it extended up to 36 months.  When I was driving, give you an example, my controls for my van on the quad, so I needed hand controls, very expensive conversion for a van, so it was about $19,000 worth.  I presented my PASS plan.  I had a job all lined up.  I needed this van and hand control to get back and forth to work.  So, I submitted my PASS plan.  They accepted that.  The monthly part was rather huge, $19,000.  My monthly check at that point in time, I think I’d only put away maybe $500 or $600 a month, PASS will not pay you up front all that money, but they put in monthly installments.  So, what I would do I had to borrow money from somebody else and then I had the PASS coming in every month and I took that money that I was going to use for my business expenses and paid off my loan for the…for my controls.  So, it took about 36 months to do it, but I finally got the controls pretty well all paid for.

Brian Therrien:  Very nice.  Very nice.

Andy Leaf:  Yeah.  It allowed me to work.  So, if you have a business expense that you can prove to them that you need for working, they’ll work with you on it.

Brian Therrien:  So, that’s a good way for people to get some accessibility equipment addressed.  What if somebody’s already working?  Maybe they have a job.  Does it still apply?

Andy Leaf:  It can.  If they needed to have certain equipment for helping them with their work and such, yeah. 

Brian Therrien:  Okay.  Good.  So June bug, this is an interesting concept.  I want to make sure I get this.  So, somebody can come in, software’s going to be online?

Andy Leaf:  It’ll be on.  It will be available…we’re focusing on the Voc Rehab professional…

Brian Therrien:  Um-hum.

Andy Leaf: …so we’ll be contracting with different Voc Rehab agencies.

Brian Therrien:  Um-hum.

Andy Leaf:  They will have the program and then when they have a client coming in who wants self-employment, the counselor will say, okay, here is the software.  We’ll give you a pass-protected entry into your area.  Here’s the workbook to go through.  The counselor, they said, will have access to that too if he wants, if she wants.  And then they go through the workbook, all the different chapters, there’s 10 chapters, all together.  By the time they go through the workbook and complete all the work that’s there, you have, basically, all the material you need for your completed business plan that will meet their requirements, different states have different requirements for self-employment, and also the requirements for the PASS program.

Brian Therrien:  Wow.  Very good.  Thank you for stepping up and doing that.

Andy Leaf:  I’ve been in the system for so long I can see what needs are there and I’ve talked to so many clients over the years.  We’ve been so frustrated dealing with the Department of Rehab and we concentrate on trying to helping people with self-employment issues.

Brian Therrien:  Um-hum.

Andy Leaf:  So, employment for people with disabilities, I think, is a real natural because, basically, people with disabilities have problems, #1, with transportation, reliable transportation, especially these days with high gas prices, and another problem is health issues.  Somebody may have just very limited energy, like myself, I can only work for a couple of hours a day and then I have to stop.  That is not conducive for working in an office, but working at home at your own speed, you have the flexibility of working when you want to.  But, that…also work at home, you have to be a self-starter.  You don’t have somebody looking over your shoulders.  So, you have to have that type of drive in order to make your business go, because if you don’t do it, no one else is going to do it.

Brian Therrien:  No.  No.  Well, we all use or most of us have like a mortgage company or something looking over our shoulder.  That that tends to get us going.

Andy Leaf:  That’s an incentive.

Brian Therrien:  Okay.  Let’s…before we slightly change gears here, I just want to kind of wrap up and cover what we’ve talked about here, which is, we’ve talked about some basic tips for getting going.  Focus on, you know, your core competencies, what you’re good at, put it into a realistic business plan, if you don’t have skills, you know, you can go back to school, and really make sure that you find the…look at the market, study the market, find the demand that’s out there for the goods and services that you’re going to deliver, because that will certainly make the viability of your business, and then the steps for your business plan that we covered, which was good.  Types of funding.  We talked about that.  So, those are the general ones.  For those looking at the screen and looking at the desktop of my computer, this is the members for the Disability Digest and you can come in here, scroll down, and you will see there’s a section about how people with disabilities start a business.  This will be updated after this call, but if you scroll down through here, you’ll see that there’s different resources relative to what we just talked about.  There’s a link in here.  There’s a picture of Andy, for those of you who don’t know what he looks like.  There’s information in here about corporations, how you can start a corporation through the corporation store online.  I’m just scrolling down here.  Information about the PASS program.  It’s up on the right-hand-side in the block what you see right now.  On the left-hand-side, there’s a great tutorial, step-by-step audio that will help you understand how you can use the internet to research a marketplace and find a demand that was, of course, put together for us by Dr. Glenn Livingston.  A link to Andy’s site and other information here, a Voc Rehab link.  So, it’s all packed in here.  So, this will be updated after the call, but the core resources are there.  So, now, let’s move on to talk about the next topic here, Andy, which is starting a business is not for everybody and let’s talk about just how do you find and some tips to find a reliable, work-at-home job or something to do where people can make money other than, you know, licking a thousand envelopes a day to make a buck.

Andy Leaf:  Well, one thing that I stress to all our clients is do your research.  You need to look out there at what your industry trends are, what coincides with your particular interest, and I came across a book recently called the Middle-Class Lifeboat.  It’s by Paul and Sarah Edwards.  And they’ve done a really good job of kind of looking at what the energy trends are for the next 10 years or so.  If you’re not familiar with Paul and Sarah Edwards, they’ve been doing home-based business workshops and radio shows and books and stuff for probably the last 20 years or so.  They’re very very knowledgeable.  This is a book that they put together that measures the different trends that are coming up in the next few years.  So, I suggest books like that would be very beneficial for people to read to get some background on what they want to be doing.  And one other thing, too, if you’re going to go into marketing, which you need to do your marketing for your product or service, one other good book would be the Guerrilla Marketing by Jay Conrad Levinson.  He’s been doing those types of books for probably about 20 years, also.  And there’s a lot of low-cost tips on how to get your marketing self out there and not cost a lot of money.  So, those two books I would suggest for…put in your library for doing your research.

Brian Therrien:  Middle-Class Lifeboat and Guerrilla Marketing.

Andy Leaf:  Ah-hah.

Brian Therrien:  Okay.  Awesome.  What about this, I mean, people find a comfort area and often times folks get all excited and…but, I guess where I’m going with this, do you have any tips to find out if it’s a real deal?  You know, if the company is legit?

Andy Leaf:  A couple different things.  First of all, check with your Better Business Bureau, if they’re still going.  California used to have local ones and now they only have one up in Sacramento and they’re kind of hard to get a hold of, but they’re still around, so, check out your local Chamber of Commerce, too.  Check out with them to see if there’s any complaints against a particular business.  You also want to get some information on the business, itself.  How long have they been in business?  You want to talk to the customer support, how good is that?  They’re available when you need.  Do you have questions?  And then, also, get some references.  Talk to some people that have worked for that particular company and get their feedback on what their experience has been.  And if you have the internet, which most people do these days, Google it, you know.

Brian Therrien:  Um-hum.

Andy Leaf:  You’d be surprised at what kind of stuff comes up when you Google a company name or something.  You’ll get all kinds of information on them, so.

Brian Therrien:  Yeah.  Somebody taught me this tip the other day.  When you’re Googling a company and you want to find out, or a person for that matter, and you want to find out if they’ve been bankrupt or if there’s fraud, if you type in a company name and then a space and then the keyword like fraud or bankruptcy or scam, so, yeah, good advice.  Okay.  So, Better Business Bureau.  Find out, you know, how long they’ve been in biz and Google them.  Keywords, right?

Andy Leaf:  Yeah.  The information…there’s so much information on the internet…

Brian Therrien:  Um-hum.

Andy Leaf:  ..that if you just know how to work your search engines and such, you can come up with some incredible amount of information.

Brian Therrien:  Um-hum.  And in your opinion, did the same, you know, kind of skill set assessments apply that you try to find something that’s right in your wheelhouse, that you’re comfortable with, that you’re good at?

Andy Leaf:  Always.  You always want to have something that you have an interest in or you have some type of talent for…

Brian Therrien:  Um-hum.

Andy Leaf:  …some new trends that are coming up, like, if you’re good at tinkering stuff and like that type of thing, there’s a lot of stuff coming up with repairs.

Brian Therrien:  Um-hum.

Andy Leaf:  Robotic repairs, for instance, is a new field that’s going to be growing in the near years here coming up.  Also, if you have a green thumb, maybe, if you want to go into like a mini farming, growing organic vegetables for your local restaurants or for your local farmer’s market.  There’s all kinds of opportunities that are coming out there.  You just have to kind of see what your particular interests are, what you like to do, and what the need is out there.

Brian Therrien:  Um-hum.  Um-hum.  Good tips.  Good tips.  Okay.  You know what I’d like to do now, I’m going to unmute the phones here.  And we’ve got some members that have, you know, said they’d kind of share their experience about working and supplementing their income and, you know, I’m not asking that they give away the store, but Tammy are you out there?  Tammy McPherson?

Debby:  Hi Brian, I’m here.  Hello Andy.

Andy Leaf:  Yo, Debby.

Brian Therrien:  And is this Tammy?

Tammy McPherson:  Yeah, Brian.  This is Tammy McPherson.

Brian Therrien:  Oh, great, good.  Tammy runs a wonderful business called The Ultimate Fibromyalgia Resource.  And for those of you who want to find out about her work, there will be a link at the bottom here, but, you know, if you’d be kind enough to just share a little bit about your story, about how you got started and built this wonderful resource, and it’s kind of blossomed into something that allows you to supplement your disability, that would be wonderful.

Tammy McPherson:  Sure.  No problem.  I began internet marketing several years ago.  I was…I been sick with fibromyalgia for 14 years now.  And, early on, recognized the fact that I wasn’t…was not going to be able to work full time for an extended period of time.  My first website was a site offering Santa Clause letters to children and this came out of me…my own writing letters to the children in my family, strangely enough.  I built a website, because my sister said, hey, you know, you should sell this.  This is great.  People would go crazy for this.  And it took up to three years, but the website finally did take off and, now, every December, it provides me with about $500 worth of residual income I wouldn’t normally have.  And that was the first site.  The fibromyalgia site came about when I finally had to stop working and file for disability, and it came about just from a sheer drive and desire to prevent what happened to me from happening to anybody else.  And it has just sort of grown to be what it is today and continues to grow, I hope.

Brian Therrien:  Well, that’s great.  Well, I appreciate you sharing your story with us and those, again, can check out the work that you’re doing.  We’ll put a link at the bottom here.  Next, I’d like to see if Charles Vaughn would speak to everybody for a moment.  Charles…

Charles Vaughn:  Hey Brian.

Brian Therrien:  Hey Charles.  Charles works with us as a partner at the Disability Digest.  About 50, well close to 60 percent of the work that we do now is done by members to…as a way for them to supplement their income, but, you know, this is not my time for a commercial.  Charles has some great skills, and, you know, has been able to lend a lot to our members and I just, you know, if you would Charles, for a few minutes, perhaps some tips and a little bit about your experience for everybody, please.

Charles Vaughn:  I’d like…I’d just start from the top that five years ago, or longer than that now, several years ago I became disabled, mostly from the back is the issue.  And not being able to continue on with work, they let me go, and I tried telemarketing for a couple of years and that didn’t work.  And then for three years I was spending money, really, I didn’t have to spend on internet, mostly…most of them were the $10,000 a month-type deals that Andy was talking about.  And I stumbled across a book that helped me get my disability called The Disability Guide and that was prior to Brian founding the organization.  And then, three years later, just back to two or three months ago, I’m stumbling through the internet, again, and I find this book advertisement, oh, there’s my book.  But, it wasn’t being sold by Jonathan Gilchrist, it was sold by the disabilitydigest.com.  And, so, I called Brian and, you know, told him how I had used that book to help me get my disability benefits in nine-and-a-half months.  And then I was interested, he was looking for people that wanted to work from home and I really needed that and I feel it’s God’s blessing that I really…that he led me to this site.  And what interest me most was when you talk about having the personality for the business that you do, I believe I had that, and I think Brian can confirm that.  I have a lot of empathy for people who have found themselves disabled and I have a lot of mercy and compassion with them.  And I love speaking with them.  And I’m really not selling our service so much as informing and giving people knowledge, so you don’t have to…I don’t have to force it on anyone.  I simply suggest to them that we have some means to help them to obtain their disability benefits if, in fact, they’re eligible for it.  And that’s all I do is I encourage people, I pray for people, I sometimes cry with people.  But, it’s the business that fits my personality.

Brian Therrien:  That’s great.  Thanks for sharing that Charles.  That’s…surely appreciate it.

Andy:  Charles, it sounds like you found a good niche for yourself?

Charles Vaughn:  Thank you…Andy, it’s perfect.  And I would like to bring out a book.  You mentioned a book.  Here’s a book that someone else might enjoy that’s very easy reading and I’ve enjoyed immensely and it’s called Why You Cannot Become Anything You Want To Be.  It’s kind of the opposite of…the service is talking about becoming everything you want to be.  And the point of the book is that your personality, your work personality, your vocation personality has been formed when you were a kid.  And many times, if you look back, when you were a kid, you will find out that sometimes that you were a leader, sometimes you were a follower, sometimes you were an inventor, sometimes you were a comic and maybe like to be the star of the show.  And all those are, so to say, pre-existing conditions to what you’re going to become as you get older or I should say what you should become as you get older.  So, this is a very good book and it’s by Arthur Miller.  And it’s just great reading and very motivational.

Brian Therrien:  Okay.  Very nice.  Michelle Toole, are you out there?

Michelle Toole:  I’m here, Brian.  How are you?

Brian Therrien:  I am doing great.  For those that don’t know Michelle, she…Michelle has a very interesting story.  I’m not going to steer or offend her, but Michelle became disabled.  Didn’t have any computer knowledge.  And long story very short, has got an internet site called Healthy Holistic Living that is in the top one percent of most visited sites on the internet.  So, she’s done a great job and I’m…I’ve asked her to share a few pointers with everybody here, today, and how they might be able to obtain the same thing.  So, thanks for taking the time, Michelle.

Michelle Toole:  Sure, my pleasure.  And Andy, thanks for sharing all your great information.  Eight years ago I was diagnosed with a chronic illness and I spent the first five of it very focused on on what I considered my full-time job, which was taking care of myself and doing what I could to help my…the position I’d come to in dealing with my chronic illness.  And I was bedridden and using a wheelchair and once I had kind of elevated to a point that my health had improved, I decided I needed to stimulate myself in other ways and decided on, possibly, creating a business.  And like everybody else, you know, we did research on the internet, looking for opportunities, and…

Charles Vaughn:  Michelle, could you speak up a little louder?

Michelle Toole:  Oh, sure.

Charles Vaughn:  I’m have a difficult times hearing.  This is Charles.

Michelle Toole:  Okay.  Sure, Charles.

Charles Vaughn:  Thank you.

Michelle Toole:  I researched on the internet and found, you know, that there were a lot schemes out there and kind of stumbled around and, eventually, I came across an organization called SiteSell that puts together a product called Site Build It.  That was my answer to be able to help me transition into technology, an area that I was inadequate in at the time.  But, my focus was really not, necessarily, on building a website, but in parting the information I’d learned through my recent experiences.  Andy had noted, you know, what is it that you are skilled in, what is it that you’ve been focusing on, what are you passionate about and be able to translate that into a business and, so, I was very passionate about what I…my experience in dealing with my illness and the choices I made to improve my position to be able to feel it impact my illness.  And, so, that led me to being able to share my story on the internet.  And it’s just grown expidentially since then, partially, because I’m a driven person and I have that entrepreneurial-type personality and able to motivate myself but, partially, because I found the right tools to be able to help me get where I’m going to help develop the plan I needed, do the market research I needed appropriately, you know, develop the business, so we please the search engines as well as pleasing my readers.  And it’s just taken off from there.  It’s been a wonderful and exciting experience and I’ve done it for the last year-and-a-half part time, and I’m certainly at a point where I’m supplementing my income and I would say, keep your fingers crossed, in the next year be able to say I don’t need disability, thank you, I’ve got it managed.

Brian Therrien:  Very cool.  You know, one thing I did want to mention about, for the audience, Michelle, that you’ve done that’s very clever, and is consistent with your experience and transforming that into a business, is Michelle has written a guide.  It’s a, you know, digital download, very economical guide for people that want to really focus on trying to win their case on their own or just have a thirst for knowledge to learn everything they can about the process.  Michelle and her family documented the process that she went through and so it’s all available online, but, you know, here’s a good example of somebody that went through an experience, documented it, and turned it into something they can share with others as well as a vehicle to supplement Michelle’s income.  So, that’s very cool.  I commend you for that and it’s a great guide.  Certainly have had great comments about it, so, I appreciate all that.  Here’s what I’d like to do now.  I want to open it up for questions and answers.  So, if Andy or Tammy, Charles, Michelle, anybody, if you will just…we’re going to spend, maybe, I think we’ve got, maybe, 15 minutes more tops of Andy’s time.  If you would just state your name and then address your question to, you know, the individual and we’ll do our best to answer it and, again, if you would keep those questions really focused on today’s topic about  how to start a business or find a reliable work-at-home opportunity, that would be fantastic.  So, who would like to go first?  Who…

Deborah:  I would.

Brian Therrien:  Okay.

Deborah:  Deborah.

Brian Therrien:  Deborah.

Deborah:  I’m from Port Richey, Florida.  I just wanted to pose a question to Mr. Leaf, Andy.  If you can start a corporation and, somehow, have the money that you earn go into the corporation, then it wouldn’t affect your Social Security benefit for awhile?

Andy Leaf:  That’s true.  What you’d be doing, you form the corporation and then you would work as a contractor for that corporation for a particular wage and then the corporation would pay you the wage, whatever you want to have it at, $400 or $500 a month, $800 a month, whatever.

Deborah:  Oh, okay.  And the other question I had was about a PASS plan.  If you could use a PASS plan as…for a home-based business idea.  Like I live with another family member and they are going to sponsor me with a business planner, but I...I don’t have a home office covered.  So, I was wondering if a PASS plan could be applied to put money aside for a down payment on a space, like a condo or something like it that would be your home business?

Andy Leaf:  Well, as a condo you could…well, I don’t have office work for sure.  But, as far as buying a whole condo for that, that would be a hard sell.

Deborah:  So, just…

Andy Leaf:  You could structure it, though, that you would have this income coming in as rent from your corporation and that could help pay for your mortgage.

Deborah:  Okay.

Andy Leaf:  If you could structure it that way.

Deborah:  Oh, wow.  Thanks very much.

Andy Leaf:  Does that make sense?

Deborah:  Yeah.  Great.

Brian Therrien:  Great.  Good question, Deborah.  Who’s next?

Sherry:  I have a question from Coral Springs.

Brian Therrien:  Yes.

Sherry:  My name is Sherry and one of the things that you had mentioned was disability grants, whether you’re starting a business or you’re needing income, extra income?

Andy Leaf:  Um-hum.

Sherry:  You say there is a course out there to get the grants?

Brian Therrien:  The Disability Digest has put together a do-it-yourself grant research course has a course that was put together with Rose’s.  You know, the…I believe, Andy, you’ll concur that you need to exercise extreme caution about anything that’s for sale online relative to grant research work…

Sherry:  Right.

Brian Therrien:  …because it’s a very competitive industry.  But, the course that the Disability Digest has is based on Rose’s experience.  She has, indeed, helped over 480 people, at the time that I recorded with interview with her, so it’s following it step-by-step.  But, grants are not easy to work.  I’m sure..to get…I’m sure Andy can attest to that.  But, they are out there, so, Andy do you have anything to add to the grant question?

Andy Leaf:  Yeah.  There are a couple of things.  There are corporations and sets that do grants.  There are competitions.  The Idea Café does a business plan competition, I think, once a year…

Sherry:  Um-hum.

Andy Leaf:  …you can submit your plan there, and, you can be with others, of course.  But, there’s a fund called Abilities Fund, and I believe they’re out of Iowa, and they’re at abilitiesfund.com, it’s on the web there.  You go there.  Patty Lander’s the one who’s the director there.  And they do business funding for people with disabilities.  So, limited, but if you have a business plan and can submit your plan as solid, then they can help you with some start-up funds.  We had a client, not too long ago, who was an artist who was trying to market his artwork that he’d done before he went blind, and he went to Abilities Fund with his business plan and they funded him for, I think, it was around $5,000.

Brian Therrien:  Hum-hum.  Yep.  So, really, Andy, the best bet for funding is the PASS program and Voc Rehab, right?

Andy Leaf:  That’s the best way to do it.  Otherwise, there’s…they’re few and far between.  A lot of people want to start nonprofits because they feel all this grant monies are out there, boy, I’ll go out there and get all this money coming in.  Well, it doesn’t work quite that way.  First of all, Voc Rehab won’t fund start-ups for nonprofits, because you don’t really own a nonprofit.  It’s a board that runs it.  The other thing is that…boy I lost my train of thought there, but…what was the question again?  I forgot what it was.

Brian Therrien:  Grants.

Andy Leaf:  Oh, grants.  Yeah.  That’s about it I have to say right now.

Sherry:  It’ll come back.

Andy Leaf:  But, yeah, I say, you’ve just got to be real careful, especially for the organizations that are, which is to say that we’ll sell you this expensive book to show you there’s a thousand and one ways to get money from the Federal Government.  Those are very hard to get.  And, again, what I was thinking before, was the nonprofits.  If you’re going into the nonprofit world to have access to grant monies, it takes probably two or three years for you to establish a good enough relationship and track record in order to be able to approach people for funding.  So, it’s not real easy money.  It’s very difficult money.

Brian Therrien:  You know, one thing that would be…is helpful and really turned the tables for me and putting this all in perspective for Voc Rehab is understand that Voc Rehab is incentive to put people back in a tax paying situation.  Whether it’s self-employment or you’re running a corporation.  That’s what makes them tick and gets them government funding and really is their their status that they’re monitored by.  So, when you come in the door, you know, you have to be polite and very persistent with these folks because they’re bombarded, but that’s what makes them tick.  So, that’s why…I also believe that’s a factor in helping people and why that’s a great place to go first.

Sherry:  And you have to know where else you can go to look for help like the Abilities.  You have to ask a lot of questions.

Brian Therrien:  Um-hum.  Yep, yep, you do.  Who’s next?  Who else has a question?

John:  I do.

Brian Therrien:  Who’s that?

John:  John from Tampa.

Brian Therrien:  John, welcome.

John:  How ya doing?  I’m just curious about the corporation thing on the self-employment.  Being one that’s just going to H&R Block, nowadays, to have your personal taxes done and thinking $250 is ridiculous.  But, now, as a corporation, you have to file a personal income tax and a corporate income tax.  Now, you’re talking about $700, $800, $1,000.  Is there any solution to that?  Because I’m trying to pay less money in taxes than $1,000 versus $100 or $200 at this point.

Andy Leaf:  Well, that’s part of your business expense.  You’ve got to incorporate that into your operating expenses and you’ve got to pay for your corporate taxes, otherwise, you get in trouble.  So…

John:  You’re paying taxes twice, right?  You’re paying taxes twice?  Personal and corporate?

Andy Leaf:  Ah, yeah.  You have to…you have to go through and do the process.  If you have enough money coming in from the corporation, hopefully, that will pay off their taxes and set you up okay.  But, it it takes a lot to generate that much income, so, you’re going to be, probably, running in the red for awhile until you can get up into the black.

John:  Right.

Andy Leaf:  New businesses, at least, take a year or so, normally, to get up to the point where they’re they’re in the black and making enough money to offset their expenses.  It takes awhile.  You have to be patient and you want to make sure you have enough money in reserve so you can keep yourself going.

Brian Therrien:  You’re not advocating, Andy, that somebody needs to open up a corporation day one, are you?

Andy Leaf:  No, no, no.

Brian Therrien:  Here, I mean…

Andy Leaf:  I..I..I, yeah.

Brian Therrien:  Yeah.  You could start as a sole proprietor and, you know, when you get to $500, $600, $700 a month, and you want to ramp it up, then you can look at a corporation.

Andy Leaf:  Right.  You don’t need to do a corporation unless you have a lot of money coming in.  Then you can do that.

John:  You’re making, in a couple of years, you know, $20,000 a month, obviously that’s a lot…you definitely…Social Security’s going to find out about it, right?

Andy Leaf:  Yeah.  Well, you don’t have to incorporate to go for a PASS program or for the Department of Rehab.  So, it’s not really necessary until you get to the point where you’re making a lot of money.  So, I would start as a sole proprietorship or limited partnership or whatever you want to do.  Start out that first and then when you’re making more money and you’re growing, then think about doing a corporation.

John:  Gotcha.  Okay.  Thank you gentlemen.

Brian Therrien:  You’re welcome, John.  Okay.  Who is next?

Caller:    I just wanted to share that I had asked about a PASS plan and he said I could go for a PASS plan for…as many times as I want only you have to pay the money back if you don’t go, you know, through with your goal.  But, it can stretch beyond that three year period.  That’s what I was told.

Andy Leaf:  Oh.  Okay.  Well, that’s that’s new information for me, because I’ve…usually they have it for about 12 months and will extend it for 24 and a real stretch for 36, but if they do it even more, that’s good.  I know the government is putting together more incentives for people with disabilities to start their businesses, so…

Brian Therrien:  Um-hum.  Um-hum.  Um-hum.  And on that note, is there anybody else on the line, today, has a success story about supplementing their income while on disability that would be willing to, you know, offer some advice or tips?  That would also be something else that would be nice to hear.

Pam:  I do.  I’m Pam from North Carolina.

Brian Therrien:  Thanks Pam.

Pam:  Hi.  I have…I’m just starting out in a new online marketing business.

Brian Therrien:  Pam, could you…could you speak up or come closer to your phone?  You’re really faint.

Pam:  Sure.  Can you hear me now?

Brian Therrien:    A little better.  Thank you.

Pam:  Okay.  I have started up on a new marketing venture.  I’ve been on disability for almost seven years now and I went ahead and tried a product someone sent to me and was so impressed with it that I went ahead and got involved in the marketing opportunity, and even though this is a new venture for me, I’ve already been able to make some money.  And I’ve got to tell ya, I don’t…I have no idea of, you know, what the ramifications are going to be, you know, with my disability situation, but I’m just…I’m going to go for it, and the product is , you know, it needs to be out there and people are really interested.  So, I’m very excited about it.  

Brian Therrien:  Good for you.  You know, Pam, what I would encourage you to do is in the members area, there’s a course called How Much Money You Can Make And Keep Your Benefits that will help you understand, you know, all of the limitations for the sustained income activity regulations that are out there.  So, it’s typically more than people think that you can make.  It’s around $900 a month that you can make.

Pam:  Very good.

Brian Therrien:  Yeah.  Thanks for sharing that.  Who…who else has a question, today?

Karen:  Hi.  I do.  My name is Karen.  I’m in New York City.

Brian Therrien:  Sharon?

Karen:  I’d like to find out…I had two questions.  They’re kind of money-related questions.  One was about offsetting medical- and work-related expenses and what that mean?  Does that mean that your taxable income is decreased, at that point, by those expenses and do you pay the same estimated tax…do you pay estimated taxes if you’re a self-employed person on disability?

Andy Leaf:  You want me to take that, Brian?

Brian Therrien:  Sure.  That’d be great. 

Andy Leaf:  Ah, yeah your primary related or maybe work expenses and your business expenses, you take your check for your coming every month, which is your gross, and then you want to deduct all your business expenses, your employment related work expenses.  If you have, maybe, $800 in expenses and $900 coming in, then you have about $100, and that income and that is what you will be charged taxes on.  The other ones are not employment-related work expenses so much.  Some of those can be written off for the regular taxes, but it can be taken off for your Social Security and make sure that your check does not affect it.  So, in some cases you’re employment related work expenses can be taken off your taxes and others they can’t.  So, but, mostly they can.

Brian Therrien:  Well, can I just add a question to this?

Andy Leaf:  Sure.

Brian Therrien:  I want to make sure I understand this.  If you’re not…if you’re a sole proprietor and you’re making $500 a month and you have work-related expenses of $200 a month and that $500 a month that you’re earning is you’re going to get a W-2 or something like that for it.  Is it the $500 a month that is viewed at, you know, as toward your SGA or is it the net, which would be $300?

Andy Leaf:  It’s the net.

Brian Therrien:  It’s the net?  Okay.

Andy Leaf:  It’s the net.

Brian Therrien:  Alright.  So, regardless of being incorporated, you can still deduct your business expenses?

Andy Leaf:  Yes.  Oh, yeah.  Oh, yeah.  For sure.

Brian Therrien:  Okay.  Great.

Pam:  You’re saying that that reduces your taxable income?

Andy Leaf:  Right.  Yes.

Pam:  Okay.

Andy Leaf:  All your business expenses you’ve taken off, that’s your gross and then your net, which is half your expenses, is what you get taxed off.

Brian Therrien:  Um-hum.  Um-hum.  Okay.

Tammy McPherson:  Brian.

Brian Therrien:  Yes?

Tammy McPherson:  Can I throw something in the mix of this?  This is Tammy.

Brian Therrien:  Sure Tammy.

Tammy McPherson:  One thing.  When people are trying to decide what type of business they decide to become involved in over the internet or working or a corporation or starting their own corporation, tax issues are a big part of it and that’s one of the reasons why, I personally, chose Affiliate Marketing over some of these others such as multilevel marketing and things like that, as they are required, by law, to report any currency over $800 in a years time.  Anything less than that does not get reported.  So, if you’re an affiliate for say Affiliate Junction, in a year’s time that you earn less than $800, that amount is not even turned in to the IRS by Affiliate Junction in form of a W-2.  So, Affiliate Marketing is a very good way to do it, because anything below $800 is not reported.

Brian Therrien:  Well, that’s a great tip right?

Pam:  Right.

Brian Therrien:  We…what we’ll do is we will sensor that out and only give that information out so that it’s not dropped.

Tammy McPherson:  Well, well, it’s…they’ll tell you when you signup…

Brian Therrien:  Yeah.

Tammy McPherson:  …as an affiliate…you have to give your tax ID number just in case you made or earn more than $800 in a year’s time for Affiliate sales…

Brian Therrien:  Um-hum.

Tammy McPherson:  …for their website.  And that’s why I chose Affiliate Marketing, because of that reason.  And that…also with Affiliate Marketing, you have the opportunity to set up various streams of income so that you’re not dependent on a one level company where you’re matrix can collapse, therefore, you you lose income, and it really is depending, I mean, dependent on your work.  It’s what you do, in other words, to get, you know, paid for hits that I get to the website from my website.  So, it’s a performance-based market…

Brian Therrien:  Um-hum.

Tammy McPherson:  …and you can get any of the online gurus to tutor you for nothing just simply by signing up on their list and it won’t cost you a thing.

Brian Therrien:  Um-hum.  That’s a great tip.  Thanks for sharing that, Tammy.  Okay.  That’s…we have time for, maybe, two more questions, today.  Who would like to go next?

Paul:  Hi.  My name is Paul from New Jersey.

Brian Therrien:  Welcome Paul.

Paul:  Yeah, I have a friend who does…you know, he’s disabled and he does, you know, tutoring as English as a Second Language…

Brian Therrien:  Um-hum.

Paul:  …and his biggest problem is, you know, having a location to do his tutoring.  A lot of people are hesitant about him…them coming into his…him coming into their house.  So, are there any ideas as to how he could procure a location at low cost to run his business and make it something regular?

Brian Therrien:  What age is he tutoring?

Paul:  He’s tutoring teens mostly, but he’s open.

Brian Therrien:  Okay.

Paul:  You know, it’s mostly immigrants who want their children taught.

Brian Therrien:  Okay.

Tammy McPherson:  The library.

Andy Leaf:  Brian?

Brian Therrien:  Yeah.  He can get a room at the library.  Um-hum?

Andy Leaf:  I have an idea for him.  There are many internet, how do I put this, just like go to meetings, like out meetings, but you can communicate back and forth with the person and pay a monthly fee to be able to…be able to conference with somebody.  And the idea I had in mind in teaching the…with…to be able to speak over the computer or through phone through the computer, and do the exercise that he would be given here, he or she would be given, through the computer website.

Brian Therrien:  Yep.

Andy Leaf:  In other words, you can see what they’re typing and whether it’s spelled correctly, grammatically, punctuation, etc., etc., and yet, at the same time, he’s speaking over that.

Brian Therrien:  Yeah.  Yeah.  That was my idea, as well.  Like, for those attending the meeting and looking online, today, and looking at my computer screen, it would be using this same format and, you know, using business for $99, actually less than that, he could do it for $40 a month for the online café and then his phone line.  And he would be able to expand his skills by not just tutoring but, perhaps, could incorporate, if he doesn’t already, the typing and the rhythm component of it.

Paul:  Right.  Right.  Right.  That’s great.  Good idea.  Thanks.

Brian Therrien:  Yep.

Andy Leaf:  You’re welcome.

Paul:  And that’s assuming that his customers have computers.

Brian Therrien:  Well, yeah.  That is assuming that.  The other thing is, if they don’t, they could always go to cafés or libraries or, you know, yeah.  That is…that certainly would be a limitation.

Paul:  Right.  But the other thing, too, is you mentioned, you know, even renting a room in a library might be a feasible thing to look at.

Brian Therrien:  Um-hum.  Um-hum.

Charles Vaughn:  Try a church.

Brian Therrien:  Yep.  Yep.

Paul:  Yep.  Yep.  Sounds good.

Brian Therrien:  So…

Paul:  Thank you.

Brian Therrien:  Okay.  Last question.  Who’s hot?

Tammy McPherson:  say this restaurant.  The Golden Corral.  They have a room you can use.

Brian Therrien:  Yeah.  Starbucks.  All kinds of places.  By the time he buys a coffee at Starbucks, it may be better off to rent a place.

Paul:  I mean, he, could really take that piece…

Caller:  have the corner run.

Paul:  No.  He takes them seriously.  In Starbucks there’s just too many distractions.

Brian Therrien:  Yeah.  Yeah.  Okay. 

Paul:  Thank you.

Brian Therrien:  Okay.  Last question.

Karen:  Hi.  This is Karen in New York City again.  Can I ask another question?

Brian Therrien:  Sure.

Karen:  Okay.  It was about, well, there are really two, but if you don’t have time, you don’t have time.  One is if you’re…if you’re not getting a W-2, like if you do something where you’re self-employed like tutoring where you can…you’re just bringing in cash, are you required to pay estimated taxes?  Do you know if you’re required to pay estimated taxes?  And the second question was what are the benefits of having a corporation?  So, they’re really two different types of questions.

Andy Leaf:  I wasn’t quite sure of the question.

Brian Therrien:  Well, there’s really two questions there.  If you’re own income, are you…are you expecting to pay estimated quarterly taxes?  That was one.  If you’re tutoring?

Andy Leaf:  If you’re self-employed, you’ve got to figure out, ahead, yeah, exactly what your tax rate’s going to be and, I think, quarterly’s a good idea to get broken in with that.  Big chunk at the end of the year, so I would, yeah, do it quarterly would be a good way to do it.

Brian Therrien:  Let me just see if I can put the corporation part into perspective, again.  The corporation, if you look at it this way and draw two circles and, you know, and have the corporation be one circle and you be another.  If the corporation collects all the money, let’s say the corporation is collecting $1,000b a month, is what your sales are, the value of having a corporation is you draw, maybe, a $200 or $300 salary a month from that corporation, which would be the other circle.  So, what is showing on your income against your, you know, sustained gainful activity amount is the $200 or $300 that you draw for a salary.  But, the corporation, on the other hand, is collecting the money and, as Andy explained, can pay for other expenses that you have that allow you to control the income, because you might have a spike in your business and go up to $1,500 or $1,800 a month or you might go down some months, after that, to, you know, $400 or $500 a month, but what Social Security is going to look at, is they’re going to look at exactly how much you make, right?  Not the corporation.  So, that’s really…the value of the corporation is to allow you to control income, maximize, and leverage those expenses that you have.  It’s really…

Andy Leaf:  You’ve got to be kind of careful there, Brian, with the corporation.  You don’t want to be stock piling lots of money and not using it for expenses.  Then you could get into trouble with Social Security.

Brian Therrien:  Yeah.  And there was a…I also heard that you also need to be careful about being, you know, the only officer in the corporation.  So, there are other things that, as you start to get more successful, you need to understand.  But, the underlying point is, use the corporation as where you’re creating your own job and controlling your own salary.

Andy Leaf:  But, your corporation is a separate entity from yourself.

Brian Therrien:  Yeah.

Karen:  Where do you find help with someone that knows how to do that?

Brian Therrien:  What?  Set up a corporation?

Karen:  Nobody.

Andy Leaf:  Well, on our website there a step-by…like a step-by-step thing on how to do an incorporation in your area.

Brian Therrien:  Yep.

Karen:  Uh-huh.

Andy Leaf:  It varies from state to state.  I’d give you the one from California, but other states is very similar.  It’s just a matter of writing to your secretary at the state and get your forms and such and from the Federal Government, also.

Brian Therrien:  Yeah.

Tammy McPherson:  Brian, before we end, can we bring up the concept of LLC versus Incorporating?

Brian Therrien:  Sure.

Andy Leaf:  Yeah.  LLC is a limited liability corporation.  That’s where if you go in with other people, that the liability is somewhat limited.  And a corporation, a regular corporation, you talking about?

Pam:  Yeah.  Doesn’t the LLC allow you to sep…have a sep…be a separate entity just like being incorporated?

Andy Leaf:  Yeah, ah-huh.  Yes.  That’s a liability corporation, yeah.

Pam:  Right.  It doesn’t have a…right.

Andy Leaf:  It just restricts some of the liability with the people involved in the corporation.

Pam:  I mean it’s a great transition step prior to considering, you know, if you are not at a point where you’re making a lot of money, do an LLC versus, you know, looking at doing a full incorporation, right?

Andy Leaf:  Ah, I don’t know if there’s much difference between the two.  They’re both corporations.  Limited liability corporation is a corporation, so.  Self-employed, that’s a different thing you can go in as your own owner…

Pam:  Um-hum.

Andy Leaf:  …or operator, and that’s different from a corporation, of course.  A lot of a corporation will give you a bit of a distance from protection, because it is its own entity.

Brian Therrien:  Good.  Good.

Pam:  Yeah, because I read something about the S Corporations.

Andy Leaf:  Ah, that’s another type of corporation, yeah.  And that’s where…S Corporations is where you have, oh my God, it’ stocks I believe it is.  I’m not quite sure of the revocation of that.  Brian, do you remember?

Brian Therrien:  An S Corporation, yeah, I’d say that’s what I have and I have a bunch of stock.

Byron:  Difference between LLCs and what we call a C Corporation or an S Corporation is that when you have an actual incorporation other than an LLC, you have to have a member meeting.  Officers have to meet, usually quarterly, and you have to record those notes.  It’s a lot more formality and there’s a bit more expense in getting it set up.  With the LLCs, it’s very simple.  Often it can be done online.  I know in Colorado, I can do an LLC in about 15 minutes.  I can have a tax ID, everything, in 15 minutes.  And it’s done online and you can pay…it’s very minimal cost, like $25, if you do something online.  If you had to send the same paperwork to Colorado, it’d be $100 is their application fee.

Brian Therrien:  Um-hum.

Byron:   The difference between an S Corp…the only issue about an LLC is, as far as taxes go, you can spend money for the business, but any profits are going to trail through to you, personally, eventually.  So…

Pam:  Wow.

Byron:  …so it’s like the money does not get stuck in it like it does in a corporation.

Brian Therrien:  Um-hum.

Byron:   It just flows right on through, so you don’t have any double taxation, but any profitability that you have, any net income, will become a personal liability on your personal tax filling.  That make sense?  And, now, when you’re actually using a formal corporation, like a C Corporation or an S Corporation, the S Corporation gives you certain latitude to minimize your taxation and be taxed at a lower rate than a regular C Corp and that’s why, Brian is it?  That’s why he has been advised or he’s already learned that that’s how he wants to chose to do his thing.  Now, to have the greatest latitude to do a lot of other creative things, once you have a lot of money coming in, usually they recommend you get at least two corporations and there are many many technical ways to, basically, shelter that income, so it, in essence, begins to be non-taxed, altogether.  But, that’s’…that takes a pretty sophisticated, you know, attorney working with you or you get very very knowledgeable before you’re going to get to that stage.  But, it has abilities that an LLC does not have…

Brian Therrien:  Um-hum.

Byron:    …and that an S Corporation does not have.

Brian Therrien:  That’s Byron Michaelson, my roommate and helper, today, so.

Andy Leaf:  So, thank you Bri…Byron.  Does that answer your question?

Pam:  Yes.  Thank you.

Brian Therrien:  Good.  Good.  Okay.  Listen, we’re just about out of time and I want to respect Andy’s time here today and everybody else.  So, again, this has been recorded.  We’re going to circulate it with all the resources that we mentioned here today, the books and the websites, etc.  So, I want to thank Tammy and Michelle and Charles and everybody else for participating and, most importantly, Andy for for this valuable information that you’ve shared with us today.  So, I think you, everybody, and appreciate you coming on by.  Have a great day.

{end of the interview}