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Minute #5
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Brian Therrien:
Greetings everybody.
This is Brian Therrien from the Disability Digest and I’m here today
with Kathy West Evans for our Disability Digest Jobs and Income conference.
How are you today Kathy? Kathy West Evans:
I’m doing just great Brian,
thanks. Brian Therrien: Great.
Great. Just want to address
a few housekeeping issues for those that are listening in from out there and
whether you’ve dialed in via the phone or logged on via the internet, you
are currently in a listen-only mode, which means that you’ll be able to hear
Kathy and I throughout the conversation and then later on in the broadcast, we
have collected some questions from members and we will also, if time permits,
I know you’re on a tight schedule today Kathy, we will take a few live
questions. So, if you talk and you
don’t think that we’re not listening to you that’s not it at all, it’s
just that we can’t hear you because it’s just you’re in the listen-only
mode now. So, at any rate, we’ve
got a lot to go over today and first I want to thank you, Kathy, for taking
the time to spend with us today. Excited
about this top, you know, going back to work, supplementing income is
something that’s near and dear to the audience out there, so we’re anxious
to get your input on, you know, on some tips that might help them in what’s
going on in the vocational rehabilitation world these days.
So, appreciate that. Before
we get started, I just, a little bit of information for the audience so they
know who you are. You’re calling
in from Washington today right? Kathy West Evans: Yeah.
From the other Washington. Washington
State. Where I was...I live east
of Seattle. Brian Therrien: Very nice.
A city that I haven’t been to, but want to go.
I’ve reviewed some of your work.
You have an extensive, you know, experience in the rehabilitation world
since 1978 and it appears that you’ve really done or developed an expertise
for working for the deaf or with the deaf and the deaf/blind/hard of
hearing-related programs and you’ve moved on from there and now you’re
working and have worked as a voc rehab counsellor, correct? Kathy West Evans: Yes. Brian Therrien: Great. Kathy West Evans: I worked for the State of
Washington V&R program for 14 years as a counsellor and an assistant
regional administrator and the state wide program manager for business
relations and marketing. Brian Therrien: Great.
Great. So, you know, what
people really want to know, Kathy, and we’ll go on to what you’re doing
now is the audience out there is really interested in learning about how much
money they can make and keep their benefits and the whole, really the biggest
concern is going back to work and how that will impact their benefits and
that’s the thought process and it might even be a limiting thought process
for people before they even pick up the phone or make that initiative to go to
a voc rehab office to investigate it. So,
I believe there’s a drastic misunderstanding.
People can work, they can supplement their income, they can keep their
benefits, they can migrate back into the work world, part time, full time, at
an easy easy process and keep their benefits.
So, anxious to go over that with you today.
So, let’s...if we could, before we get into the heart of the line up
here, let’s talk about what you’re doing now with the rehab network and
it’s also known as the CSAVR. All
these acronyms out there in the disability world.
Kathy West Evans: Yes. Well,
obviously it’s an acronym that wasn’t developed by a marketing company,
but, Brian I want to say, I have worked at the community level, I’ve worked
for the state, I’ve worked for the Federal Government.
The organization that I work with now is the membership organization of
all of the 80 VR directors across the country.
There are 80 VR programs in the states and the territories.
But, before I talk a little bit about that system, I want people to
know that I’m a family member of six, eight people that have actually been
verified by the VR program and I also provide ongoing support to my brother
who is a disabled veteran who happens to be quadriplegic with a traumatic
brain injury and so, a lot of my experience and my commitment to what I do
comes from that personal perspective because currently my brother is living
independently and we’ve got a variety of support in place and he’s working
part time and raising a 12-year-old daughter, which I think is his biggest
job, but he continues to have the benefit and support of multiple systems, so,
I just wanted to say that as part of my introduction because I know it’s not
easy to navigate the systems and believe me, I’ve had a lot of personal
experience and frustrations and have found good people as I’ve gone, too.
So, I want to bring that into our discussion.
But, as I said, CSAVR is the membership organization of the ADDR
program. We have 80 programs
because this is a state/federal partnership, so the program, itself, is
authorized under federal legislation called the Rehabilitation Act, but that
federal money goes to the state and the governor in each state determines how
the program is set up within the state. So,
in some states we have two agencies. One
serving individuals who are blind separately from an agency that’s serving
individuals in what we call a general program.
In some states it’s a combined agency.
We also have agencies in the territories, so we have programs in Guam,
Puerto Rico, and the Northern Mariana Island.
So, that’s how we come to have 80 programs.
As I said, each one of these agencies operates differently in different
organizations within the state. It
could be a stand-alone agency like a commission or they could be housed within
an umbrella organization like Human Services, Labor, Education.
So, I think that’s one of the reasons this program is confusing, is
where do I go in my local level and they’re all called different names.
But, that’s kind of the background of what the program looks like. Brian Therrien: Okay.
It wouldn’t be as simple as having one agency per state, so, but, you
know, at least the resources are out there.
This is good to know. Kathy West Evans: Yeah.
I mean, it’s...it’s the whole concept of, you know, the state’s
licensed in determining how services are delivered and how, if combined with
other agencies within that state, which could be, you know, your medical
services or your developmental disabilities, mental health agencies, etc. Brian Therrien: Um-hum.
Um-hum. A few things I
wanted to mention that I was intrigued by.
The first one is that you’re responsible for.. is it appears or as
you mentioned to me that you’ve developed as best practices process between
the AD directors in that if there’s something that’s working here in
Vermont with our friend Hugh that works here and he shares the idea that it
might work out there in Washington, that’s, you know, that’s beneficial
information. And that’s, if you
could, maybe, expand on that a little bit.
I feel that that’s very...one of the most proactive things that
can be done because once you can really unlock the key to putting people back
to work and share that, it’s going to make a difference. Kathy West Evans: Oh, definitely.
Well, what I’m working on right now is a national initiative that’s
sponsored by CSAVR and what it focuses on is how we work together across the
country on our relationships with business.
Because we all know, we’ve seen Harris poll after Harris poll that
says that’s the number one barrier for people with disabilities in the
workplace is the attitude of people who are making decisions about hiring,
promotion, and retention. So, our
strategy is working with those companies that plan to help alleviate some of
those concerns, answer questions, build a relationship with them so that when
there are questions, they’re not just saying well I’m not going to hire
that person with a disability because they’re in a wheelchair or they, you
know, can’t read print, or they can’t hear or, they don’t process
information like everyone else. It’s
those fears because as a society, we’ve been taught that it’s not okay to
ask questions. So, that creates a
lot of misunderstanding and I’m sure the audience deals with that
particularly if you’re a person with a disability or a family member, I’m
sure you deal with that frequently. So,
what we’ve done is developed a team that’s national in scope but delivers
locally to these businesses, because the other trend that we’re all very
aware of is that business is now multi-state and global.
So, if we are working successfully with the business in Florida or, as
Brian said, in Vermont, but they also have business operations in Ohio, Iowa,
Idaho, and California, then how do we leverage those connections in Vermont
and expand our relationships with those companies so that people with
disabilities in all of those states have access to that company and we get the
word out through our network to individuals who are looking for work, what
those opportunities look like. Brian Therrien: Great
stuff. You know, I’ve said this
before publically and just want to voice my two cents here, as I really feel
that American businesses have totally missed it and they radically
misunderstand the quality of work, the work ethic, and the great opportunity
that exists by employing people that are disabled, and I use the Disability
Digest as an example, I mean this is all run by our members that are disabled
with the exception of one person that is non-disability because that position
just wouldn’t allow it and, I mean, this business would not be what it is
today without the great work. I
mean it’s brilliant. So, I just
feel that it’s a part of educating our members and then bringing the
businesses to the table and have a big peace pipe, and, you know, let’s get
on with it. So, that’s my take. Kathy West Evans: Oh, definitely.
There’s a lot of talent out there that’s untapped and I think... Brian Therrien: Yeah. Kathy West Evans: ...you know, we need to help
people get past that perspective that it’s about the disability, because it
isn’t. We’re looking at people
with talent who are motivated to work and what we see in trends is that
individuals, once they’re on the job, are, in many cases, outperforming and
more dependable. Brian Therrien: Yes. Kathy West Evans: Quench those stereotypes. Brian Therrien: Exactly.
Exactly. So, let’s go on
and talk about vocational rehabilitation.
And for those that, in the audience that, you know, maybe they’re
impaired or they’re just getting ready to go back to work and they don’t
really know what voc rehab does. Can
you give us the ABCs of, you know, what they can expect, what they can get
from sitting down with a counsellor? Kathy West Evans: Sure.
Sure. Well, vocational
rehabilitation is a program that was actually established in federal
legislation in 1920. So, it’s a
program with a long history. And,
initially, the program was set up to serve injured workers and veterans who
were returning from the conflicts. At
that point World War II. So, what
has happened over a period of time is that the veterans have established their
own program and, so, the Department of Veterans Affair has a VR Program and
we’re not the same, but we do serve about 16,000 cases jointly.
The Injured Worker Program has broken off and has become its own
separate program and then the state VR, the federal/state partnership has
become the public VR Program. For
those of you who are not injured because you were involved in active military
duty or because it was a work-related injury, you can apply for the Public
Vocational Rehabilitation Program and the eligibility requirements are that
you have a disability that’s posing barriers to you in getting employment,
that you want to work, and that you can gain benefits from the program.
Pretty simple. What happens
is that you go through an eligibility process and what is very helpful when
you first sit down with your counsellor is to share with that person what are
the barriers that you’ve experienced? People
have disabilities that sound similar on paper you may have a person with the
disability of blindness. Maybe
that’s the diagnosis. But, we
all know that it’s different for each individual.
So, what barriers does that create for you in the workplace?
I mean we know that some individuals might need to use a screen reader,
some could use magnification or large print.
But it varies per individual. So,
when you’re working with a counsellor it helps if you can help them
understand either what you’ve experienced or the barriers that you
experience in everyday life if you haven’t actually been in the workplace.
And then what are your goals? What
are your strengths and abilities and where would you like to see yourself in
the future? Really
kind of thinking through that. Now,
also, when you sit down with a counsellor, it’s good to have an
understanding of not just what the workplace looks like, but what do you need
in terms of support of everyday living? Do
you need assistance with transportation to get to and from the workplace?
Are you going to need assistance with family support like maybe day
care or, you know, other personal care assistance?
Thinking through as an individual, what supports are you going to need
to allow you to be successful in the workplace?
And that’s the type of discussion that your counsellor and you will
have as you begin looking and working through the eligibility process.
And you’ve got a set of barriers that are somehow keeping you from
being employed and how do you reduce the impact of those barriers and/or
eliminate them? I mean in some
cases, we can’t totally eliminate them, but we can reduce the impact that it
has on your ability to be successful in the workplace.
So, thinking about that, thinking about your goals, then you work
together with your counsellor to build what’s called an individual plan for
employment. And here’s another
acronym the IPE, not to be confused if you have a child with a disability
who’s in the school program on the Individual Education Program.
And I don’t know why we have to choose acronyms that are similar to
each other, but in our program, that’s what it’s called, the IPE.
And the IPE will be a listing of services that you and your counsellor
agree upon are necessary to overcome those barriers.
Things that you’ve discussed to allow you to meet your vocational
goal. Now, because each of you is
individual, that’s going to vary person to person and I think that’s the
real beauty of the rehabilitation act and the VR Program, is that we are not
menu driven. We are designed to
support the individual based on a holistic plan that could be very
comprehensive. Now, we may not pay
for all services, but we will help you look at who out there can do that.
So, for example, if you are interested in going or it’s necessary
that you go through some training or education, we would help you look at how
to apply for a PELL Grant because that PELL Grant is another program that can
help you meet expense, which leaves the funding that we have available to help
you meet expenses that won’t be covered by another program.
So, that’s how we work through it all on the individual plan.
And, then, we work together on following up.
If you’re in school, how are you doing?
Do you need support? Once
you graduate, as you’re going through that transition, do we need to build
in an internship program? How do
we get you work experience that will help you be more competitive, etc?
If you’re a person on Social Security because you meet the definition
of disability and eligibility for Social Security, you have what’s called
presumptive eligibility for the VR Program.
Now, for someone on Social Security, as my brother, we’ve done a lot
of service coordination with different systems, but we’ve also worked very
carefully with a benefits coordinator, because Social Security changes every
year in terms of sometimes the FGA, the Federal Gainful Activity, the level of
earnings that you can earn without losing your benefits changes, but it’s
always great to bring in those other resources and when you meet with your
counsellor, you’ll have those kinds of discussions, too.
If you’re on Social Security, what does that mean and how much would
you need to earn in order to be totally off Social Security and how do you
make that transition occur through the support of someone like a benefits
planner? Does that help things? Brian Therrien: That’s a great overview.
Some of the key things that I understood from you is kind of getting in
the...some of the layer questions I wanted to ask you, but what really seems
to be important to me that I hear from you is that if somebody really goes in
with their goals, what they want to accomplish, and in order to accomplish
those what are the limiting factors that are in place whether it’s
transportation or day care or maybe they need to get re-educated, go back to
school to, you know, learn a different trade and then go in prepared with
that, it seems to me that they’re going to be that much better off and get
better attention from a counsellor if they have all that in place.
Would that be correct? Kathy West Evans: Right.
The counsellor should help you think through all of those things, but
the more information that you can think about for yourself, I think the better
prepared you come and the quicker the process moves.
And the way that I like to think about it is when I sit down with a
person or when I’m in a meeting with, like with, my brother or advocating
for an individual, I like to think of it as, here I am as a person, what do I
need at home to make me independent and be able to go to work, what do I need
in terms of transportation, what do I need in terms of other support.
You know, kind of that independent living perspective. Brian Therrien: Sure.
Like you’re brother has a 12-year-old that he would likely need to
have some child care support for... Kathy West Evans: Yeah, definitely. Brian Therrien: ...if he’s going to go off
and... Kathy West Evans: Right. Brian Therrien: ...transportation.
So, yeah. Kathy West Evans: Right.
Right. And, you know,
because he’s got a young teenager, he definitely needs some encouragement
from other parents. Those lazy
teenagers. Brian Therrien: Sure.
Um-hum. Um-hum. Kathy West Evans: But, you know, it was that
whole thought process for him. So,
here’s what I want you to imagine. My
brother had his accident just before age 40.
He was in patient rehab for seven months.
He’s in outpatient now. He
had a coma. As his coma started to
clear, we sat down, the family, we sat down with the doctors and said, yes,
we’ve heard what your diagnosis is, medically, but we want to start helping
Matt...who’s my brother, look at...what’s going to happen after he leaves
the hospital? Because there is
life after the hospital, right? Brian Therrien: Um-hum. Kathy West Evans: So, we started looking at,
you know, he’s going to be using a power chair.
So, what does that mean in terms of his living?
He’s going to need to access...have accessible transportation in his
community. We want him to be
connected and socially reconnect, because particularly for a person who
develops a disability later in life, it’s how you remain connected with who
you are, your family, your community, and, living
life maybe in a different way, but continuing to live your life.
There was, also, financial consideration, so applying for Social
Security even though he hadn’t been, he hadn’t completed his hospital
stay, and then he also went through a separation and custody and, the
doctors initially said he was living in a nursing home and we looked at each
other and said, oh no, he won’t, because that’s not what he wants to do
and that’s not the vision that he has for himself or that we have in
supporting him. So, it ended up
that my, we purchased a home that
we had...we worked on to make it accessible.
He arranges his own transportation.
He’s never lived in a nursing home.
He has a live in caregiver. He’s
raising his daughter. He went back
to school. He’s working part
time now and once his daughter finishes school, plans on working full time. Brian Therrien: Very nice. Kathy West Evans: And he’s...often he
volunteers at the VA hospital. So,
what can I say? Brian Therrien: That’s a great story. Kathy West Evans: You know, it’s the
determination of the individual and the support around that person. Brian Therrien: Um-hum.
Um-hum. That is...that is
excellent. That is excellent.
I wanted to ask you, on your website there’s this $3 billion of
investment to assist Americans with significant disabilities in getting jobs.
Now, is there any...will that bring any new resources into the fold
that would make a difference? Kathy West Evans: Let me give you a picture.
If you look on our website, I think the point that we’re making there
is that the U.S. Government spends $200 billion on public assistance, which
basically goes to keep people with disabilities unemployed.
I mean it supports people in Social Security or medical care or other
services that are very necessary for an individual but in comparison to that,
there’s only $3 billion among the 80 programs that’s invested on getting
people back to work. So, I think
the point that we’re trying to make there is rehabilitation makes a lot of
sense. We know that every time
someone goes to work and moves off of Social Security or off of medical
support, that for every dollar invested there’s a $7 return. Brian Therrien: Um-hum. Kathy West Evans: Which is important for
people like Congress to hear. Brian Therrien: Sure. Kathy West Evans: People with disabilities can
be very productive if you give them the appropriate support. Brian Therrien: Um-hum. Kathy West Evans: What we’re seeing
nationally is we serve about a million people a year and the people that we
serve, the majority of them are in plans that are two to four years in length
because they’re going through training or they’re involved in some other
type of long-term support that’s getting them ready to go to work.
But, when we look at how many people are applying or could apply,
we’ve got...I think the current stats right now are about 32,000 people on
waiting lists Brian. Brian Therrien: Really? Kathy West Evans: And we don’t have money to
serve everyone. Brian Therrien: Wow.
Wow. Kathy West Evans: And what happens when states
have a backlog is that they go into what’s called an order of selection.
One important thing I want people to know is the federal law, the
Rehabilitation Act, requires CR Agencies to have what’s called a State
Rehabilitation Council. That State
Rehabilitation Council is comprised of a majority of people with disabilities,
but also includes parents, business, educators, other partners that we work
with and that State Rehab Council determines what happens in terms of the
investment of money at the state level, the policies at the state level, and
what happens to an agency when they don’t have enough money or enough people
to serve everyone who’s applying? And
what that does is that puts in to what’s called an order of selection and we
are required, federally, when we have limited resources at the state level, to
serve only the most significantly disabled as the priority. Brian Therrien: Okay.
Here’s a question and I don’t know if you have an answer for it,
but I’ll ask it anyway. You
know, the audience that we have here at the Disability Digest have been, you
know, all the times that I’ve done this if the number of people that want to
go back to work is just staggering. The
number of people that are interested in going back to work full time is like
very low. I’d say maybe 1 or 2%,
but it might be, if I surveyed our group it would probably 30 or 40% of
everybody would like to do something for work.
So, my question is this: understanding that the SGA today as this
recording it’s $980 unless you have a...a month unless you have a visual
impairment, $1,600 something, I don’t know the exact number, but it’s a
lot more. How does voc rehab and
the government look at that as far as having people go from a no taxpaying
situation to making some money supplementing their income?
In getting back into the workforce that way. Kathy West Evans: Well, I think we all
struggle with this because you know, frankly, for people who are on Social
Security and receiving not just the monetary support but the medical benefits
and, people that we’ve talk with, Brian, and I’m sure it’s your same
experience, the biggest fear is losing the medical benefit, that’s the piece
that is the hardest to replace in terms of the amount of money it would take
or going to work for a company that would have that same level of medical
support. And I know that’s
something that Social Security is continuously looking at and we are looking
at it as well, because there’s a very low percentage of people that actually
move off of Social Security and that appears to be the biggest barrier. Brian Therrien: Yeah.
Yep. Kathy West Evans: So, you know, there has been
talk nationally about how can we help people go to work but retain those
benefits? And there’s been some
changes in Social Security that allows that to happen for a period of time and
I think the more that we see around those efforts the better for people who
really want to go to work but need those ongoing supports, because for a
program like ours, once a person is working is stable for at least a
three-month period, for other people it’s longer, we track them longer,
we’re required to close their case. Though
you can reopen it in what we call post-employment services if something
changes and you need support. But,
our program is measured on employment outcomes as how many people go to work. Brian Therrien: Okay.
Let me... Kathy West Evans: So, yeah, the station of
benefits is really important. Brian Therrien: ...okay.
The thing that I’ve learned in listening to members is that help is
so unpredictable. And somebody may
be in a situation that they could work some now.
Maybe they could work enough to get above the SGA, but they don’t
know for how long, right? So,
that’s that’s the biggest thing. So,
we’re going to get into the ticket to work in a little bit and I know
that’s got some flexibility on it, but it sounds like the voice is being
heard and they’re on it it’s just there’s really nothing concrete in
place right now. Would that be
correct? Kathy West Evans: Yeah.
I mean I’ve seen that as a barrier for several years and I know many
people have voiced it. The key
question is how do we resolve that at a national level because Social Security
is a federal program. Brian Therrien: Yeah. Kathy West Evans: And, I think that’s
something that we need to keep focusing on and sharing ideas.
I know there’s some new regulations that I’m really focusing on
with our national network with business and that’s a program called
Partnership Plus. Have you heard
of that program Brian? Brian Therrien: I have not. Kathy West Evans: Okay.
What that is allowing us to do and we’re working with our corporate
business partners around that is that once we have a person in the job and
they’re stable for at least three months, if not longer, but once they’re
stable in the job, this allows us to work with business and Social Security to
help that business become an employment network, so that business is actually
getting support from Social Security for the ongoing support that that person
might need in the workplace. We’ve
seen things like job coaches available long term for someone that has a
developmental disability because the developmental disability agency or the
mental health agency has the money to help support a person long term at work.
But, we’ve never had those funds available for someone that might
have like, for example, a traumatic brain injury. Brian Therrien: Um-hum. Kathy West Evans: And needs that same kind of
support. Well, this Partnership
Plus would allow the business to work with Social Security to get that
reimbursement that would allow them to have a job coach for other people or
pay for a sign language interpreter, which we all know is expensive, or
equipment or some type of accommodation that a person might need that would
be, otherwise, would be something that they would need long term. Brian Therrien: Okay. Kathy West Evans:
So, we’re working with our business partners to help them be part of
that solution as well, which, I think, will be helpful and that’s some
changes that Social Security has made there. Brian Therrien: Sure. Kathy West Evans:
That one’s under work you can imagine how some of the private sector
businesses feel. They don’t
necessarily trust the government. But
we’re working on it. Brian Therrien: I won’t comment on that. Kathy West Evans:
Yeah, there ya go. Brian Therrien: One thing I did want to
clarify, though. So, let’s take
your brother for example who’s working part time right now.
Did he go through the VR system? Kathy West Evans:
Yes. He has support from
both the Veteran’s Administration and VR. Brian Therrien: Okay.
So, what I really want to zero in on for the audience, if somebody is
in a position like your brother right now and they said you know what, I think
that I can get out there and I can maybe do, you know, 10-12 hours of work a
week, you know, and do that, but I’m going to need some help.
If they went in and they sat down and they go through all the wonderful
information that we’re going to give them here today, what type of a
response would they get from a counsellor?
Would they sell well, unless you’re interested at some point in time
in working full time, then we can’t help you or we can help you now and see
where it can go in the future? Kathy West Evans:
That’s the latter. Brian Therrien: It is? Kathy West Evans:
Because, for individuals, particularly those with significant
disabilities, and you’ve already alluded to part of it, disability
changes... Brian Therrien: Um-hum. Kathy West Evans:
...you know, we have conditions like multiple sclerosis, which is,
people are impacted by changes in, you know, a variety of things in their life
and so, some days it may be that they can work full time other days part time
other days maybe not at all, so, we understand the disability changes, as
people age disability changes, and that some people, you know, maybe the only
option they will have is part time. We
see a lot of that with support in employment, developmental disabilities, etc.
But, it’s looking at that person at that point in their life and
where they want to go in the future. And
maybe someone comes in with a goal and they want to work full time, but it
doesn’t work out that way. Brian Therrien: Um-hum. Kathy West Evans:
They found out after working that they don’t have the stamina, or the
ability to do the full time work. I
mean we close a lot of cases of individuals who are in part-time work status.
My brother’s...right now he’s not...he does not have an active case
with VR. Brian Therrien: Okay. Kathy West Evans:
So, he went through the program. They
helped him go back to school, they helped him...provided him supports for
independent living, to get there, they provided him supports for equipment
that he would need in order to work and support himself, so he has a laptop
and it was loaded with like Dragon Naturally Speaking, that stuff. Brian Therrien: Sure. Kathy West Evans:
The software that he uses, etc., so those were all put in place and
then he went to work part time and so he doesn’t currently need the supports
of VR... Brian Therrien: Um-hum. Kathy West Evans:
...but when he’s looking for full-time work or things change for him,
he has the ability to go back for VR...to VR. Brian Therrien: Okay.
Now, that we’re kind of in and around this topic, are there any other
resources or, general resources that voc rehab offers that would be good to
let the audience know. I have a
few on my list I wanted to ask you about, but is there anything that you can
think of? Kathy West Evans:
Well, you know, people ask what are the services and, you know, like I
said earlier on, I think the beauty of the program is that it’s flexible
based on individual needs. Brian Therrien: Okay. Kathy West Evans:
So, for example, I want to
share the fact that we have worked in...self employment’s one of the topics
we’re going to hit but we work also not just the state PR programs, but we
have 70 programs that are housed on Native American communities. Brian Therrien: Um-hum. Kathy West Evans:
So, there’s an American Indian VR Program, which means an individual
lives on or near the reservation and/or the village, depending on where
you’re located, and I worked with the Alaska program where the VR Agency and
the Native American VR Program work together to set someone up as a caribou
herder. Brian Therrien: Wow. That’s cool.
Brian Therrien: Okay. Kathy West Evans:
And that, of course, it has to be legal. Brian Therrien: Well, yeah.
That that would be ideal. Kathy West Evans:
Yeah. Brian Therrien: So, one of the things I
wanted to ask you about is the PASS Plan, but before I get on to that, let me
just back up a little bit. I’m
always asked, always always always asked about grants.
I want a grant for this, that, and the other thing, and grants are one
of the biggest misunderstood things that are out there.
From our research they do exist, but you’ve got to really be
prepared. But relative to the work
at Voc Rehab, you mentioned PELL Grant, which would that be for education? Kathy West Evans:
Yes. Brian Therrien: Okay. Kathy West Evans:
That’s...that’s offered through the US Department of Education and
the Financial Aid Services that they have. Brian Therrien: Okay.
So, somebody comes in and they do their IPE, Plan for Employment, and
part of that includes re-education or some cost that can be offset somewhere
else, that could be paid for with a grant then the counsellor will help pull
up the resources available? Kathy West Evans:
Yes. Brian Therrien: Okay.
So, it is possible if people are looking for grants that are in line
with their...with their plan for employment that they could get assistance in
getting those. Now, does the
counsellor actually help do the grant writing and all the details relative to
that? Kathy West Evans:
Well, the PELL Grant is not a grant application, per se.
It’s an application. Brian Therrien: Okay. Kathy West Evans:
Yeah. So, it’s not...I
mean it’s not what you would think about as writing a grant application. Brian Therrien: Oh, okay. Kathy West Evans:
But, you know, let’s throw this out Brian.
Let’s say that you’re a person who, say you are exploring education
and you’re getting some PELL Grant, but there’s some other grants out
there and you would need assistance to complete the writing of that grant.
Like maybe there’s a scholarship offered by a private company or
something and, you know, you would need the support.
The VR counsellor, when you sit down with them, if you tell them you
need that kind of support, even though the counsellor may not be able to do it
him or herself, they can hire people that can assist you. Brian Therrien: Perfect. Kathy West Evans:
VR counsellors carry probably, an average of about 160...they’re
working with about 150-200 people at one time. Brian Therrien: Wow. Kathy West Evans:
So, what they’ve done is we’ve developed a network of community
partners and community support. So,
for example, it may be a person who can help you with career search or resume
development or business plan writing or say that you’re experiencing some
issues with housing and maybe it’s a person or an advocate can help you with
accessible housing. There’s a
whole network of independent living centers, community providers, people who
provide assistive technology for people with disabilities and the VR
counsellor has the ability to hire the services of those people as part of
your plan for employment. Brian Therrien: Great.
So, 150 people, I’m wondering if the person in the clown business
went in with the clown outfit first so his case stood out? Kathy West Evans:
No. Just the note. Brian Therrien: Wow. Kathy West Evans:
No. No.
I mean the per...people come in with ideas and, I
think sometimes, , I’ve worked with people who have come in and, for
example, one young student was...I believe the first time that I met with him
he was maybe a junior in high school... Brian Therrien: Um-hum. Kathy West Evans:
...and he wanted to be a mortician and the reason he wanted to be a
mortician is because his uncle was a mortician and his uncle drove a very nice
car. So, he thought this was the
field for him. So, we started
talking through a little bit about what that meant and what you did and as
soon as he found out that you had to work with people who were dead, he
totally changed his mind. Brian Therrien: He just wanted to drive the
car. Kathy West Evans:
He wanted the car, right. Brian Therrien: Yeah. Kathy West Evans:
So, it’s sitting down and thinking through with people, and this is
an example that’s tied to someone that obviously doesn’t have a lot of
exposure to the work of work, but it’s sitting down and really thinking
through what is it that you want, what’s important to you in the workplace.
I mean, for some people it’s money, for some people they’re
motivated by the environment, for some people they’re motivated by the
profession, and it’s really getting to that point of what’s important to
you as a person in how you work and where you work. Brian Therrien: Um-hum.
Um-hum. Kathy West Evans:
And, you know, that helps drive what your plan looks like. Brian Therrien: Okay.
I want to jump around just a little bit here and talk about the PASS
Plan, self employment, owning a business because I’ve got the clown, you
know... Kathy West Evans:
You’ve to the clown stuck in your mind? Brian Therrien: ...stuck in my mind. Kathy West Evans:
Yeah. Brian Therrien: So, here’s another common question that somebody will say listen, you know, I’d like to start a business. Where can I get money? Where can I get grant money for it? Now, what I’ve advised people is there certainly is...there are certain grand and funding resources for the starting a business, but if they’ve got a really good business plan and it’s well built like any other business, we’ve seen many members of our site get success by getting a PASS Plan. I’m wondering if that’s what the clown got? Kathy West Evans:
Actually at the time we worked with that person, the PASS Plan wasn’t
an option. Brian Therrien: Oh, okay. Kathy West Evans:
So, you know, I think you hit the nail on the head, Brian, that
absolutely, most important thing to have in setting up your own business is a
good business plan. And I know
that I have worked with people...because I’m not, I will be very honest.
I’m not necessarily a self-employment expert.
I believe in self employment as an option, but I know where to find the
people who know how to do this. So,
I know that in our local community we’ve developed a relationship with the
Small Business Administration. We’ve
accessed their small business development centers, their business information
centers. I’ve worked with an
individual out in California who’s name is Urban Miras and Urban is the
President of the Disabled Business Persons’ Association and is a person with
a disability himself and has been very helpful in writing business plans for
people. There’s also the
Abilities Fund, which is a small business support organization out of Iowa.
So, like I said, there’s a caudray of experts in different parts of
our field that we really need to draw from when it comes to, you know, pulling
together that kind of support... Brian Therrien: Um-hum. Kathy West Evans:
...and then, you know, adding on your benefits planner and your Social
Security people in terms of how those all work together. Brian Therrien: Um-hum.
Um-hum. So, are there any
tips for people that are interested and we’ve got a complete educational
course that we did with Andy Leaf out of California that includes the PASS
Plan. You know the who, what,
when, where, why, how stuff, where to go... Kathy West Evans:
Right. Brian Therrien: ...to get started.
But, are there any tips that maybe you can add to the mix that would be
helpful for people to understand? Kathy West Evans:
For people to understand what? Brian Therrien: Well, what they’re going
to need to have. I mean we talked
about the fact that you’re going to need to have a really good business
plan... Kathy West Evans:
Yes. Brian Therrien: ...likely experience in
there, but is there anything else that you can share with the crowd that would
be good to know that they’re going to be asked or need to have this if
they’re going to go in looking for a PASS Program? Kathy West Evans:
So,
you’re talking about the connection with a PASS Program to a business plan? Brian Therrien: Yeah.
Like if the clown was to go back in today... Kathy West Evans: Right. Brian Therrien: ...you know, an example like
that, so, it... Kathy West Evans: Well,
I mean, I think...I think it gets back to, with the PASS Plan, and, again,
I’m not an expert in, you know, when Brian asked me to do this I was very
clear that when I’m working with an individual, the important thing is when
you’re not an expert to reach out and find the expert... Brian Therrien: Yeah. Kathy West Evans:
...because it, for you as individual people on Social Security, this is
your support... Brian Therrien:
Um-hum. Kathy West Evans:
...and I would not jeopardize that support for anything.
I would definitely use an expert like a benefits planner or it sounds
like you’ve got some good supports from the gentleman in California. Brian Therrien:
Sure. Kathy West Evans:
But it’s always thinking about...what you’re going to use your PASS
Plan for, what you’re going to purchase to support it, how it relates to you
becoming employed and independent. Brian Therrien:
Okay. How...now with the
PASS Plan, how...can you explain the difference between that and the IPE?
The Plan For Employment? Because... Kathy West Evans:
The Individual Plan For Employment is a specific plan that’s required
for vocational rehabilitation. For
each person that we serve, they’re served with a goal and services that are
laid out in that individual Plan For Employment.
The PASS Plan is a Social Security requirement. Brian Therrien:
Okay. Kathy West Evans:
So, two completely different systems. Brian Therrien:
Gotcha. Alright.
Okay. Super.
Let’s...let’s talk about this.
Whether somebody is seeking employment or self-employment, what tips
may you have, other than what we’ve chatted about, to prepare people for
their meeting and contacting a counsellor?
What would help separate them from the pack and increase their chances
of success? Kathy West Evans:
Well, I think coming prepared, coming having put some thought into
where it is you want to go and why you want to go there, what you want to
work, being open, asking for support in exploring options.
If you’ve got some ideas of a general field that you want to go into,
think about learning more about the different environments that you can work
in. For example, if you’re a
person who’s interested in working, I don’t know, what’s a general area
Brian? Brian Therrien:
Here’s a general area. A
lot of people, because of the limitations, feel that they could work...they
could work from home doing either admin work or some call center work,
telesales work. Kathy West Evans:
Okay. So, say you’re
interested in doing some call center work. Brian Therrien:
Okay. Kathy West Evans:
You’re interested in doing admin support, customer service.
So, here’s the things I would think about.
There are a lot of different environments you can work in.
Brian mentioned working from home and we are working with some
companies that now have what they call Home Agents.
But, you could also be working in a call center environment and some
things I would think about would be are you doing sales, are you taking
inbound calls for like service on an item or people calling up because
they’ve purchased something and they’re calling in around a warranty?
I mean, what environment do you feel comfortable in?
Do you feel comfortable in selling or would you want to be with a
company that does of that customer service end of things? Brian Therrien:
Um-hum. Kathy West Evans:
Do you want to work in a call center and can you or do you feel
comfortable working in an environment where you are maybe in cubicles close to
each other or would you be prepared to work from, if the option were there, an
at-home environment, which means that you definitely have to have dedicated
time, dedicated space, and the equipment to remotely access whatever
company’s system you’re working on. Brian Therrien:
Um-hum. Kathy West Evans:
So, I mean, those are all customer service and call center-related, but
you can work in different environments in that.
So knowing a little bit about yourself, you know, I know people who
work very well from home. I happen
to work from a home office, but it requires that I set the time aside that
I’m very clear with my family when I’m working and when I’m not that
I’ve got the live connections to be able to be online and be able to
participate because I work in a national arena, with people who are in
different time zones then I’m in. So,
you know, it’s that kind of flexibility and thought process behind it. Brian Therrien:
Yep. Kathy West Evans:
And some people work very well in that environment and others prefer
something that’s more structured and that’s really individual choice
regardless of disability, that’s really individual choice. Brian Therrien:
so I guess, again, to recap, it really is...I think one of the most
difficult parts for people is to, first of all, get their head around the fact
that they can work and keep their benefits and then, second, is to figure out
what to do. And I know that
we’re pressed for time. You’ve
got what, maybe nine or ten minutes left, right?
But, I did gather some questions, today, from the audience and I
thought what I would do is expand on a couple of the questions that are
relative to what we just chatted about because I feel that it would be really
helpful for people. So, if
you’re looking at the...if you’re looking at the screen, you’ll see that
I’m scrolling down and a lot of these questions have been answered today,
and you can always come back and get a copy of this.
I’ll circulate the questions that are...that have been sent in by
members that there was several questions in one area and so we put them up.
But, here’s one of the questions that came in that was really common.
Basically, individuals says, well, listen I’m highly functional in
some areas. I’m not able to do
what I did before, but I would like to do something or figure out how to
create my own business. So, I’ll
just...I’ll share this story with the audience and I’ve told it before,
but maybe it’ll get the creative juices flowing and Kathy if you have
anything to add, certainly love to hear it. There
was this meeting that I had with a gal about a year-and-a-half ago and she
wanted to go back to work and, do some stuff and I’d run a similar job at
Income Conference. And in that
conference we had another advisor, somebody that was a coach for people with
disabilities, so we’re going around, we’re chatting and so we asked her.
We said, well, Ma’am, what is it that you...what is it that you like
to do? She said, geez, really, you
know, to tell you the truth, the way I feel, what I can do and what I like to
do is I like to sit around. So, we
put our heads together and what came out of this is she...we understood that
she could get in a car, she could go places, and she was pretty reliable like
two or three hours a day. And, so,
we came up with a business and a plan for her to create a sitting around
business, which is what she called her company, Sitting Around.
So, what she would do is she advertised herself as somebody that would
go and sit at your house, so that you didn’t have to take the day off and
wait for the refrigerator repairman or the cable guy or whatever else it might
be, and she charged a nominal amount of money that people could certainly
justify paying. Very creative
idea. And has gone off and created
her own employment, which is one of my favourite stories that I’ve had in
this business. And I know that
there’s other people out there that if you just kind of sit around and think
and ask others in your peer groups, say what do you think that I might be able
to do right now to get back going in the right direction.
So, that’s a cool story. I’ve
always enjoyed it. Any reflections
on that Kathy? Kathy West Evans:
No. I...I think you’re
absolutely right. It’s...it’s
the person thinking about absolutely what it is that they can do, enjoy doing,
what kind of an environment they want to work in.
I know there was a person that I had worked with who had been a
builder, actually he’d been a roofer, and had an accident and ended up being
a person who used the wheelchair. Well,
he still had a lot of skills but, obviously, he wasn’t going to get up on
the roof anyway easily and continue doing that type of work.
And when we sat down and looked at what we called the transferable
skills and what he enjoyed doing, he was very good at ordering materials and
his company hired him back as a materials handler. Brian Therrien:
Brilliant. Kathy West Evans:
So, he couldn’t do the work physically, but he could go to the job,
take a look at what would be required in terms of the materials for that job,
and put together the bidding list for the materials and it was a great example
of him continuing to work for the company using the skills that he had and had
developed working for them, but in a different way. Brian Therrien:
Wow. That’s super.
You know, would you have time, maybe five more minutes to take a few
questions from the audience? Kathy West Evans:
Oh, sure. Brian Therrien:
You do? Okay.
So, let’s do this. For
those of you who are out there, here’s how it works again.
Everybody is in the listen only mode and the conference room is kind of
like a classroom, not kinda like, it’s really like a classroom, in that if
you would like to ask a question for Kathy or I, you can raise your hand.
There’s a hand raising feature on the Go To Webinar software.
Just looks like a hand up there. If
you click on that, I’ll see that you’ve raised your hand and then I will
give you the ability to speak. You’ll
hear a prompt on your end that will say that you can speak and it will put us
together. So, in order to do this,
you would have needed to call in and entered the the audio code in conjunction
with logging in. So, why don’t
those of you who have questions, in the last few minutes that we have with
Kathy, we will ask those. So, I
see Dennis has one here. Okay.
Alright. Dennis, you should
hear a prompt and be able to speak to us.
Alright, are you out there Dennis.
And I see there’s another one. I’m
going to click on a couple of you. James
Leavy also has a question. And
Sandra. Okay.
The reason why we’re probably not able to hear these folks is they
didn’t...haven’t put in the audio code.
Okay. We have somebody.
Who’s with us out there? Alright.
Well, we will continue. We
have some...collected a few questions and we will...we will leave these folks
connected for a minute and maybe they’ll be able to speak to us.
One of the other questions that was asked is who qualified, Kathy, to
use voc rehab? Do you need to be
on Social Security? Can you be
just impaired? What’s the
criteria? Kathy West Evans:
The eligibility criteria, as I said early on, is that you are a person
with a disability that has barriers for going to work and that you need the
support services of VR. Of course,
there are other systems. If you
are a service-connected veteran with a disability, then there’s the VA
system. So, if you come in to
apply for VR, you may be served by VA first and there may be pieces of your
program that would be provided jointly between VA and PR.
If you are injured on the job, there is definitely a whole provider of
system for injured workers. Whether
your business is self-employed or, I mean, self-injured or you’re part of
the, you know, larger state system. And
that would be the first point of entry for you. Brian Therrien:
Okay. Great.
As far as...I’m going to walk you through how to get started by
contacting the Vocational Rehabilitation Office that’s next to you.
If you reference the website that came with the replay of the
conference and you go down to the resources that are mentioned.
The Item A there, how to contact your local voc rehab office, if you
click on that and then in the top right-hand-corner, enter your state, that is
how you can work your way back to the local agencies that are available in
your area. So, that’ll help you
get started there. Regarding other
resources that can help you, perhaps they were mentioned on the call today or
they were not mentioned and they might be things that you’re looking for
like housing or treatment options, etc., if you look at Item B on the
resources mentioned section of the website that comes with this audio, then
that will bring you back into the members area.
In the members area is where we have absolutely everything you need to
know about disability and there’s all the areas that we offer information
are listed there. So, go on in.
That’s a great page to bookmark.
Pretty much everything that we have is updated and is also put in
there. The
other thing for job seekers, those who want to supplement their income.
I strongly suggest that you subscribe to our blog.
There’s a lot of information that’s been put up on the blog, and
will be even more to come, that would benefit you and your job and your income
search. For example, in Item C
you’ll see that there’s government jobs for the disabled.
Eleven companies that hired...hire disabled workers and have them work
remotely from home. Ideally the
reality of making money in your own business.
And a lot of work on tips to help you supplement your income and how to
streamline and find out what it is that you can do that is going to be
conducive to your disability. So,
have a look at that. To subscribe
to the blog, just click on the blog. You
can read the articles. There’s
an orange icon that’s in the top right-hand-corner of the blog as of this
recording. If you click on that,
that will help you out. Another
great resource to help you with jobs and income is The Community.
This is like MySpace or facebook. It’s
free and easy to join and there’s a discussion group that’s in there where
you can communicate with other members of the Disability Digest website about
your experiences of finding a job or supplementing your income.
Perhaps you can offer advice or lend a helping hand or reach out and
ask questions to others. So, the
power of collective wisdom is going to certainly help you in getting your job,
supplementing your income. And then, also on this page I put some real-life examples of people that, you know, we’ve had interviews with that are disabled and supplementing their income. And, from time to time, there are openings here at the Disability Digest. Positions that we have where you can, you know, take the skills that you’ve acquired and put them to good work and get paid making a difference building the Disability Digest. So, that’s in Item E. So, be sure to check that out and come back to that page from time to time. The last thing is these conferences are held every month as part of the monthly Disability Digest conference series. They’re, typically, the first Wednesday of every month. We have different speakers. Cover different topics, so I encourage you to mark your calendar and make note of that and come on back and pay us a visit. So, thanks again, for listening in. This has been Brian Therrien. Have a great day.
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